Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. the 20th century. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Belgian Arms cie It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Collings Hadelin 1860-1870. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Email: [email protected] When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The blue is rough but the action works. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Any help would be appreciated. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. Rifles & Musket Information. thanks for the help so far. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military to identify the manufacturer. Belgium vs. Japan: Who Made the Better Browning Auto-5? Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. Bultot Jean Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Belgian Liege gunmakers Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Wish I could be more helpful! Designates rifled barrel. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. By Alain Daubresse. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: Information, NRA Bouquin Ad Behr Jean jacques John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. Jun 21, 2012. ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Comblain H. J. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Testing the gun He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. Search. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Some sharp photos might help; send them to ([email protected]). The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Bayet Frres it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. Members . Rich engraved. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Due to the The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. It was mandatory post-1924. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 this book online and pay it through Paypal. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. that we have found on this subject. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Again, thank you for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. Bodson TH. Quick Facts There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. Christophe Henri country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as JavaScript is disabled. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. carefully bound by threads. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Email: [email protected]. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. Hi Gerard and everyone! into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. or E.C. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Proof Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). Bernimolin & Cap Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. HI, John. The Baby Browning: A .25 ACP Pocket Pistol For Personal Protection Miscellaneous On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Bernard Victor & Cie ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Thanks Hause. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. Do you have any information on them? However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Closset Louis - Remy Hubert It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . . I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. There are a number of Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Closset Louis The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Coquilhat Aim BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . Comblain Dieudonn Joseph The Modern Shotgun. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. If you can, send me a photo: [email protected],Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Marlin-Savage-Winchester I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. 29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Proof Marks or The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. It's complete. Your help is appreciated. Bauduin Charles Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. The "D.D. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. Beckers G. Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. This will be an on going Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. After years of looking at and trying Arnold Mathias I can send pictures of it. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. Mauser Serial Numbers DatabaseMAUSER PISTOLC-96 (BROOMHANDLE)DATES OF Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Anonymes After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items.
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