We had to get up at 4:00 AM to be there by 6:00. Yes, it's really terrible when there is the free-flow of information and ideas, isn't it? I'm a true follower of Reb &VoDka. ". After college, the couple married and settled in the Denver area. Sue Klebold: My son was a Columbine shooter. This is my story | TED Talk crap. (p. 277). ", Dylan: "They gave me my fucking life. COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL massacre - WikiVidi Documentary. GOLDEN, Colo. (AP) _ Less than three months before his deadly rampage at Columbine High School, Dylan Klebold was described by a probation officer as intelligent and capable of making any dream happen, according to juvenile records made public Friday. Wayne worked as a transport pilot for the United States Air Force, while . In Cub Scouts, he was a bright, dedicated boy who worked hard for his badges. It's still about management. Dylan was a depressed teenager with many mental issues. The couple said they felt under siege after the shooting and never had a chance to grieve for their son. I'm not a troll anonymous. Too bad a pack of rabid Columbine mommies can't get together and make a punching bag out of her. And for a best friend, did they spend much time together at all? Guns and weapons? Dylan seems to have been a very unhappy person. Eric and Dylan worked extremely hard to conceal their machinations. "He got his satisfaction by dominating." They have grown up to be (somewhat) upstanding members of society, but I don't see how it is so easy to go from knowing your kid is making crank calls and setting off amateur pipe bombs to seeing him as a psychopathic murderer. Not only would that give us someone to blame (someone still living, unlike Eric and Dylan, who turned their guns on themselves), but it would also allow the psychic distance between x93usx94 and x93themx94 that frightened humans crave. He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger. (The OP was looking for books on personality mirroring and other techniques sociopaths use). Great job! It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. [quote]He had been in a gifted child program, and you'd think they'd have some type of monitoring since kids who are that advanced frequently have problems. Dylan: (predicting his parents' feelings of regret) "If only we could have reached them sooner, or found this tape. What can I say, the mention of Dave Cullen's book piqued my curiosity. She just took interest and responsibility for what I did as long as I was both underage and under her roof. Or it's everything. A Further Examination: Sue Klebold's case study of her son, Dylan After sitting and waiting for 13 hours, I just needed to get home. I seem to remember them being called "fag.". Eric's dad answered a phone call from Green Mountain Guns. psycho school, nasty students, bullshit teachers, ignorant parents, hormones, bullying, rage. Firstly, like everyone else he didn't pick up on his mental health nor was Dylan apparently showing it to his 'best friend.'. Are Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris's parents to blame for the Columbine I'm sorry, all right. its hard to take anything a grieving parents says objectively and we can of course have compassionate understanding for that but also realise it may differ from the reality of the situation, which must be painful. Unfortunately, Eric was able to channel Dylans experiences and psychology into a violent act that would take not only his own life, but the lives of many others. He started getting in trouble, and complained of how certain groups of kids were ruthless bullies, yet the school did nothing to stop them. If there is a hell, they are there, burning. He overslept and missed a class and was sleeping when I got home. Empathy; not so much. Was Tom there for him when he needed him? Theyd never seen his rage, nor ever felt scared of him. I'm sure they have given depositions but I don't think those were ever made public. These kids were calculating, smart and intent on destruction. Dylan Klebold - Columbine School Shooting, Parents & Journal - Biography People that want to pretend that the parents were just innocent distant bystanders who had no responsibility for anything that happened are repulsive. What have I raised? The deadliest school shooting in the United States was the Virginia Tech massacre, with 33 fatalities and 23 injuries. Klebold's parents, Thomas and Susan, lived in a sprawling, secluded house on a dirt road. Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened. Thats Something that stands out about Dylan anyway, the Lack of Emotion regarding his parents. According to a report in the Denver Rocky Mountain News, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office was supplied with evidence a year ago that "Eric . On April 20, 1999, when Sue Klebold heard about a shooting incident at Columbine High School, her thoughts immediately turned to her 17-year-old son, Dylan, who was a senior there. Denver area Jews, meanwhile, have expressed discomfort at the emphasis being paid to Klebold's alleged Jewishness. Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised, Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks in Saturdays editions of The New York Times. His grades fell to average. Do you think Dylans dad could embarrass him as a child in front of other people or humiliate him in other ways that could result in Dylans low self esteem or was Dylan naturally shy? Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. r109 is quick to dismiss r108 as a "troll". May 15, 2004. The term "psychopath" was in academic use by the early 1910s, and the definitive work on psychopathy was published in 1941. When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylans trench coat, which he couldnt find, Lozow said. The bombing was planned for April 19th, to coincide with the Oklahoma bombing, but for some reason, they were set back to the 20th. This was murder, he said. R16 = Female with daddy issues who doesn't take kindly to unkind remarks toward her fellow twats. Eric Harris - Biography - IMDb They opened fire on students and teachers at Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado, on the Nazi leader's birthday in 1999, killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 23 people before taking their own lives. He didn't even say hi to Tom or ask how he was. ", Dylan: (interrupts) "We did what we had to do. She is the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacre that occurred on April 20, 1999. They are particularly good at it. Too bad. It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds . Shocking crime scene photos explode the myths and reveal shocking details! Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. There will always be apologists for the Harris parents who incredibly state that parents have no control over their children. They may show cruelty to animals, or alternatively a high degree of affection or attachment to animals. While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. To me its really hard to determine the quality of a relationship based on how teenagers feel about it. KleboldI started reading the Columbine book, how does he try to explain Klebold? I've always felt sorry for Dylan, who seemed so lost and depressed. I'm not saying that there's no guilt, no responsibility, because no matter how our brains are wired, we're all creatures of free will and able to make moral choices, but to lay everything at the feet of society, or the parents, or the school, is way, way too simple. Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. I don't think I can categorize Dylan's relationship with his parents as bad or good, because Dylan was incredibly disturbed teen and clearly had a skewed perception of reality. Don't believe me? The big trifecta of psychopathology. But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. Dylan takes the camera then and begins filming Eric. They do not have a moral center that can be reached. No scientist knows this absolutely. Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. By the time of the shooting, facing his intense feelings of alienation, she says his journals show the only emotions Dylan could connect to were anger and hopelessness. School officials, law enforcement, and the adult community learned a lot after Columbine and are doing a better job of detecting trouble. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. Growing up in Ohio, she had a mixed religious upbringing with her Christian mother and Jewish father. Columbine High School Shooting: Victims & Killers - HISTORY By. Sue Klebold - Biography, Facts, Family Life He's wearing a plaid shirt, either dark blue or black with white; the shirt's untucked. These are all great examples of Tom's relationship with Dylan. Brown can . My parents didn't know anything I did, didn't care,and were happy if I stayed invisible. I'd add that Tom watched the basement tapes and even after seeing them first-hand, stated something to the effect of 'see he didn't want to do it' (I'm paraphrasing here). You're far too stupid to ever see that though. "This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain.". Press J to jump to the feed. Dylan Klebold along with his friend, Eric Harris, committed the Columbine High School massacre 17 years ago. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 13 people on April 20, 1999, before taking their own lives. That's not contrition, it's a final fuck you to the world. It is very difficult to assign causality in cases like this. So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. "Psychopaths don't feel guilty because they are blind to guilt," Ochberg said. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the gunman, had been bullied for several years prior to the massacre. Or is your tiny mind only capable of two viewpoints? We are not there yet. I think he suffered horribly before he died, Susan Klebold said. It Always seems like he didn't give a damn about them, in his writings and in the Basement Tapes. But 936 pages of evidence taken from the killers' homes and cars were released by the Jefferson County Sheriff's office on Thursday, and a notebook kept by Eric's father . In general: School shootings happen most at high schools, with a student at the school acting alone as the shooter. 5. Dylan Klebold Character Analysis. Am I supposed to be impressed by dates, VOTN? Most of you posters here are complete idiots and voiceofthenight is the biggest moron of them all. April 20, 2009 6:01 PM. I must say, that rings true to me Id personally say it was because I was so self-sufficient and trustworthy as a child that my parents had no idea when I was going through (relative) difficulty in adolescence. You're an idiot. They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them. He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. Are any of Robert Hare's books of interest, if you know? The Klebolds attorney, Gary Lozow, told The Denver Post the Klebolds had no plans to grant any other interviews. Sue is from a prominent Jewish community . They could still have been on the outskirts of the school. When it came to intervention, these people had no idea what they should have been doing. Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold | Programmed To Kill That doesn't make them monsters. Apparently his meds caused an issue with a military enlistment, but wouldn't a caring parent sit down with their kid and figure out a Plan B? Tonight, an interview with Sue Klebold, Dylan's mother, is set to air on the ABC news-magazine . x93There is no comfort for parents here,x94 Cullen told me yesterday. They were not the mainstream group. Ten years after the Columbine killings, the Harris family has not spoken publicly at all, and the Klebold parents have given one interview, to the columnist David Brooks here at the New York Times. Ten years after the Columbine killings, the Harris family has not spoken publicly at all, and the Klebold parents have given one interview, to the columnist David Brooks here at the New York Times. ". Her recounting of the details of Dylans life, combined with what we learned about school shooters in general, paints a picture of how this particular child ended up committing one of the most infamous massacres in American history. (Video) My son was a Columbine shooter. As a teen, Dylans aversion to embarrassment became more severe, his self-consciousness more pointed. He had friends, but felt as if he were a burden; he wanted love, but the girl he was interested in didnt know he existed. A Mother's Reckoning by Sue Klebold, reviewed. - Slate Magazine I think maybe his outlook grew worse over time. And it wasnx92t because they werenx92t around. Mother of Columbine school shooter Dylan Klebold speaks in Oshkosh However, most people know they are guilty as sin and should burn in hell with their son. I think that even I have sustained some slight rewiring from that, though not anywhere *near* to the extent of my brother's. Sue received a number of letters from people whod gone to Columbine who were more surprised that a shooting hadnt happened sooner than that one had happened at all. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold | Criminal Minds Wiki | Fandom Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit. Dylan Klebold was 17 when he and Harris,18, carried out their long-planned attack on the high school about 13 miles south of downtown Denver. The school shooting took place on April 20, 1999 at . With these many, many factors in mind, I turn to A Mothers Reckoning. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. . While Id argue that violent media doesnt cause people to act violently if theyre not otherwise inclined, it seems Dylan was vulnerable to the violent games and movies he consumed outside the home. 17 year old son of Mr. Thomas Klebold (then 52) and Mrs. Susan (Yassenoff) Klebold (then 50), younger brother to Byron. We are not there yet. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I think it is really interesting to think about the many things that lead someone to commit a school shooting. Haven't most of you been able to conceal your homosexuality from your family for a number of years? He was easy to raise, a pleasure to be with, a child who had always made us proud (Klebold, 2016, p. 61). Susan Francis Klebold was born on March 25, 1949, to Milton Yassenoff and Charlotte Yassenoff. Wayne & Kathy Harris' son is widely seen as the . multiple newspapers and media outlets in the days after reported dylan and his father having the kind of relationship where, when dylan would come home from school, they would share a snack and read the sports section of the newspaper together. Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. "In the very . Im going to start by reviewing what Bartol & Bartol (2017) have to say about school shooters (and shootings) as a group, though they also state there is no single school shooter profile. The narrator seemed to revel in the graphic violence he was depicting, but it was the final passage that was particularly disturbing, where Dylan conveyed unabashed awe and . OP is an idiot, laying the whole thing at the parents' door. (They werent.) She went to Ohio State University where she dated Tom. They acknowledged they missed signs that their son was in trouble. When asked about Dylan's behavior, Byron indicated that Dylan appeared to be somewhat detached and he went on to explain that as a "pissed off teenager." Byron went on to state that Dylan gave no indication to believe that something like this was going to occur. Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, on April 9, 1981. They've got a son who's very bright and makes good grades, yet he hasn't applied to college and has made only a half-assed attempt to enlist in the Marines (I think he made only one phone call to a recruiter). Those kids were their responsibility legally. Sue Klebold decided to speak up now because she wants to tell other parents the signs she missed and what she would do differently. However, it is my understanding from reviews that he contends the boys actually had a circle of friends and were, in fact, popular within that group. When I moved out on my own I gained the privacy afforded to adults. Tom is a geophysicist, Sue works with handicapped people. Eric, on the other hand, was a psychopath, Cullen concludes, and he spends 400 pages convincingly making his case. i cannot remember nor can i find the source for this but im half certain its in his interview in the 11k. They cry innocence and ignorance, when I know they were anything BUT. The interview is set to air on "20/20" this Friday, coinciding with . The most undereducated, illiterate, ridiculous people become teachers. I don't think the parents are to blame and never had, but it's a lot easier hating these two kids and their parents then hating the society that produced them. [quote]The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. The Klebolds said their son was set off by the toxic culture of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated. in CJ 725, Tagged: columbine, mass murderer, mental illness, school shootings. Byron Klebold - The Everlasting Contrast One young doctor said, "I don't know if you can teach compassion, but you surely can teach the opposite! When the clerk told him "Hey, your clips are in." Plus the drug industry makes a profit. How can you not hear your child scream? Sure, that'll work! Teachers did nothing. And psychiatrists, rather dubious "doctors" push drugs. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, walked into Columbine High School with shotguns, automatic weapons, and homemade pipe . I'm sure they still live in Columbine and are active in many community functions, especially the PTA. Similiarly if a child is screaming at playmates and/or siblings and will not stop, you have to move in and take control of the situation. I don't think it's fair to either demonize or absolve them, but from studies of psychopathy, even the best parenting can't make that be turned off. Every parent has flaws and every parent makes mistakes, but to me they mostly come across as a very normal family like there are millions all over the world. We monitored what movies our boys could see, and put them to bed with stories and prayers and hugs (p. 61). Think of kids who commit suicide - often you hear their family say, "We had no idea." His parents were Wayne Harris and his wife Katherine Ann Poole. Columbine Shooters Had Tense Moment Over Passover Remark, Mother To be clear, I'm sure the Klebold's obviously loved their children, but reading Dylan's writings, there was more going on in that home that Sue would say today. She hyped it up as a must see and an insight to what really happened. At the beginning, when he writes about the good things in his life, he mentions his parents. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. Bit of a warning, it's a PDF file. Dylan's house google earth - forumotion.com I guess it's my generation. Pais was a student at Miami Beach High School who was reportedly obsessed with the school shooting at Columbine, the high school where 13 people were shot and killed 20 years ago. Just know I'm going to a better place. In 1997 Wayne Harris, Eric's father, started logging all of his son's problems. Bratty kids in Target are not mass murderers in the making. Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. Also when I was growing up, people had no qualms about calling a parent and saying "Your little boy Johnny said something really awful to my son today." or "Your little Janey slapped Susey today and she needs to stop doing that." Im looking for possible warning signs of trouble between these two individuals and their father-son relationship. In the days after Dylan Klebold along with Eric Harris shot and killed 12 students and one teacher and then himself at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, his mother, Sue Klebold, remembered . The Harrises moved away almost immediately. Sorry if I can't be interested in something without arousing your ire. As the mother of Columbine High School shooter Dylan Klebold prepares to speak out in her first interview since the gruesome 1999 shooting massacre, a survivor of the attacks has . If a kid is screaming endlessy, you remove the child from the area. if anyone can correct or find the sources for me that would be greatly appreciated! I recently watched the documentary Raising Adam Lanza, and, though it wasnt as detailed, there were some interesting overlaps between Adam and Dylan. If only we would have asked the right questions." I didnt hear it.. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. A Mother's Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy - Goodreads Over time, they became increasingly close, hanging out by often going out bowling, carpooling and playing the video game Doom over a private server connected to their personal computers. When I was 16 my parents sure as hell would have known if I had firearms in my possession or were building pipe bombs anywhere near our home. Good thing I did because Dylan hasn't exactly risen to a level of responsibility in my absence. Washingtonpost.com: Shooters' Parents Mourn Amid Questions We will just do the opposite and everyone will be safe. Children learn psychopathy from their parents (e.g., the Bushes). Susan Klebold Doesn't Believe God Is Watching Over Her Family Anymore Asking how points the way forward, and shows us what we must do. Her son's name became famous when in 1999 he became one of two direct perpetrators of the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history. The Klebolds are DIVORCED - Portal There are a lot more R&V followers out there than you would think. Byron Klebold is Dylan's older brother - photo of him at link. one of their coworkers at blackjack (again, cannot remember the name; most of this is just top of my head knowledge but it was a girl) said that dylan was not close with his dad and even disliked him (something to that effect), also in the 11k. (21 at the time). I have cousins who did shit like this - what was I supposed to do, call the cops and tell them to search their bedrooms because they might be crazy? . They made sure to know who their kids were spending time with, and made sure they knew and felt that they were loved. Eric: "Susan, sorry. The next deadliest school shooting (based on fatalities) was the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, with 27 fatalities. WOuldn't one of the friends have felt him a little bit off, at the least? Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. I'm just thinking of the argument Sue mentioned in her book where Tom was insisting that Dylan remove his baseball hat before they went for breakfast (during their visit to Arizona State University). His mom was trying to find the best fit for him, but I suspect it ended up being more difficult for him), and both enjoyed violent video games. It just seems all a bit odd. In a story for Sundays editions of The Post, Lozow related the first moments after the Klebolds learned of the shooting. I am with R14 and 15. Dylan Klebold: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com I didn't like life too much and I know I'll be happy wherever the fuck I go. I had to fight for their basic rights because allegedly educated teachers thought things like "retards are dangerous" and "retards should be kept away from the good kids". YOU SHOULD NOT STOP ME FROM EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!! Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, but moved around frequently as a child due to his father's occupation in the United States Air Force, while Klebold was born and raised near Columbine. . Eric David Harris and Dylan Bennet Klebold were a pair of school shooters, bombers, and mass murderers responsible for the April 20, 1999 Columbine High School Massacre in Columbine, Colorado, which killed thirteen people and wounded 21 others before ending with both of their suicides. Eric Harris was 17 and a hottie. Bartol, C. R., & Bartol, A. M. (2017). Hail Reb &VoDka!!!!!!!!! She has spent the last 15 years excavating every detail of her family life, and trying to understand the crucial intersection . We are ich bin auslander! It wasnt accepted.. They crowned a queen, they crowned a king. . We've hardly seen him & attempts to engage him have been futile. It would be comforting to think otherwise. Its exactly people like you that caused this massacre to happen in the first place. IE 11 is not supported. He was one of the teens behind the Columbine High School Massacre in 1999. 1/12 Tom is home from the hospital. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. Bull fucking shit. Attention was paid. [quote]Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. AAron Ontiveroz/the Denver Post via Getty Images Columbine shooters had tense moment over Passover, mother says He became more paranoid, forcing them all to flee a McDonalds because he believed a group of teens on the other side of the store were laughing at him. Hell, Klebold and a bunch of their friends went to the prom the weekend before the killings. KIN HOLD RITES FOR KILLER SON - Orlando Sentinel . Of course, if the Klebolds and Harrises said they were ready to talk to the media, you can be sure they'd all scramble for the exclusive. She behaves as if it is normal, as if she doesn't even hear it. He injured 2 students before his gun jammed and he was arrested. Hi Alison, Looking back on the textbooks suggested traits of school shooters, weve already seen above how Dylan does actually map onto many of them.